What is the difference between Tosfos תוס’ “והתניא and the Rambam?
See ביאור הלכה ס’ שי”ט סע’ א “ובורר
Learn גמרא שבת דף עד. “כי אתא רב דימי” (eight lines from bottom of the Amud) until “חזקיה
Questions:
What is the reason to suggest it is prohibited to remove good from the bad when serving to the guests immediately?
Learn תוס’ “אלא ידענא
Clarify why according to Tosfos it might possibly be prohibited.
What is the uncertainty?
Learn מהר”ם who asks a question on Tosfos
Learn ח’ ב”ח for a different explanation as to why remove good from the bad when serving to the guests immediately could possibly be prohibited.
Learn רש”י “ושדא קמייהו
Rashi says the fruit was mixed with leaves and by spreading it out on the table the fruit separated from the leaves automatically.
Why according to Rashi is there a potential issue of borrer?
Is this the same explanation of Tosfos?
Learn מהרש”א who asks on Rashi – Why is it permitted to scatter the contents causing the fruit to become unmixed. Why isn’t this considered Borer as the objective of Borer was accomplished – separating the fruit from the leaves?
Is this also a question according to the Ramban?
Halachic Conclusion:
Is it permitted to cause a mixture to become unmixed by scattering the mixture?
Learn רמב”ן פ’ נצבים ל:יא-יד who learns the mitzvah of Teshuva from a pasuk in Sefer Devarim and the obligation to say vidui from the words “its in your mouth and heart ot do”
See the header introductory line of the Rambam of ה’ תשובה פרק א
See משך חכמה פרשת וילך לא:יז “ואמר who asks why should there be a specific mitzvah of Teshuva if one is required to stop and not commit the sin again because of the original command in the torah?
Why does the Gemara compare reciting vidui to immersing in a mikvah?
It seems saying Vidui without stopping to commit the aviera is considered worthless. Why does the Gemara compare reciting vidui to immersing in a mikvah which indicates there is some purification process?
We have finished the Hachzara sugiya, but I still have a few questions on halacha lemaase, would it be possible to cover them?
I would like to discuss a few of these questions this week
1. When the oven is working on Shabbos (the oven is in Shabbos mode and the controls are covered), there is hot air coming out of the exhaust at the back of the oven. Is it allowed to put the food over the exhaust, or the exhaust opening has the status of kira which is not grufa vektuma?
2. What is the minimum depth of the pot which we turn upside down on the blech to put food on it?
3. Is there a maximum size of the pot which we turn upside down? For example, can it be a commercial baking pan that covers the whole blech?
4. Stam pot without food in it is muktze, correct? If yes, should the pot that will be turned upside down to put food on it be designated before Shabbos, or any pot can be used?
5. Can food be placed directly on blech far from the fire, where it is not yad soledet bo?
6. Can food be placed directly on blech not over the fire, where it is yad soledet bo?
As well as the questions below
The prevalent practice is to use a blech on a stovetop which would serve as קטום. What is the source that a sheet of metal would accomplish the same halachic status as placing ash on the coals?
See שולחן ערוך אורח חיים ס’ רנ”ג סע’ ג and משנה ברורה ס”ק פא
In many electrical appliances the heating elements are covered by a sheet of metal like a crock pot which the walls of the crock pot covers the coils. Does one need to cover/line the crock pot or is the sheet of metal/ walls considered a blech?
May one move a pot which is placed on the blech in an area which is not directly over the fire to a part of the blech which is directly over the fire?
Is the entire blech considered a stovetop which is גרוף וקטום or is it considered just סמוך לכירה?
Bring a proof
Learn אורחת שבת ח”א פרק ב סע’ סט & ע with the footnotes
Learn אגרות משה או”ח חלק ד ס’ עד, בישול אות יב
Learn חזון איש או”ח ס’ ל”ז ס”ק י
Learn שמירת שבת כהלכתו פרק א סעיף כה & הערה קכו
And קובץ הלכות שבת ח”ב פרק כו סע’ מ & הערה נה
Focus on next question
The prevalent practice is to use a blech on a stovetop which would serve as קטום. What is the source that a sheet of metal would accomplish the same halachic status as placing ash on the coals?
See שולחן ערוך אורח חיים ס’ רנ”ג סע’ ג and משנה ברורה ס”ק פא
In many electrical appliances the heating elements are covered by a sheet of metal like a crock pot which the walls of the crock pot covers the coils. Does one need to cover/line the crock pot or is the sheet of metal/ walls considered a blech?
May one move a pot which is placed on the blech in an area which is not directly over the fire to a part of the blech which is directly over the fire?
Is the entire blech considered a stovetop which is גרוף וקטום or is it considered just סמוך לכירה?
Bring a proof
Learn אורחת שבת ח”א פרק ב סע’ סט & ע with the footnotes
Learn אגרות משה או”ח חלק ד ס’ עד, בישול אות יב
Learn חזון איש או”ח ס’ ל”ז ס”ק י
Learn שמירת שבת כהלכתו פרק א סעיף כה & הערה קכו
And קובץ הלכות שבת ח”ב פרק כו סע’ מ & הערה נה
The prevalent practice is to use a blech on a stovetop which would serve as קטום. What is the source that a sheet of metal would accomplish the same halachic status as placing ash on the coals?
See שולחן ערוך אורח חיים ס’ רנ”ג סע’ ג and משנה ברורה ס”ק פא
In many electrical appliances the heating elements are covered by a sheet of metal like a crock pot which the walls of the crock pot covers the coils. Does one need to cover/line the crock pot or is the sheet of metal/ walls considered a blech?
Many people have the practice of turning a pan upside down and placing cold fully cooked solid food from the refrigerator on top of the upside down pan on Shabbos morning?
Is this permitted according to the פרי מגדים?
Learn שמירת שבת כהלכתו פרק א סעיף מד & הערה קכו
And see קובץ הלכות שבת ח”ב פרק כו סע’ לד & הערה מח
Question:
If one places a pan of food on top of a soup pot which is on the blech. May one move the pan on Shabbos and place it directly on the blech?
Point to consider:
What is the status of a pot of food that is resting on top of another pot which is on the stovetop.
Is it considered on the fire which is גרוף וקטום or is it considered just סמוך לכירה ?
A pot that was left on a hot spot on the blech and then moved over to a spot which is not יד סולדת with intent to return to the hotter area but person let go of the pot, may it be returned to the hot spot on the blech?
In the event someone removed a hot pot from the fire on Friday before Shabbos and placed it on the counter with intent to place on the blech and discovered on Shabbos that he forgot to place on the blech. May he place on the blech on Shabbos?
See אורחת שבת ח”א פרק ב סעיף נא והערה פד
A pot that was left on a hot spot on the blech and then moved over to a spot which is not יד סולדת with intent to return to the hotter area but person let go of the pot, may it be returned to the hot spot on the blech?
Write a summary of the laws of chazarah and all it’s conditions based on שולחן ערוך ס’ רנ”ג סעיף ב and the משנה ברורה
Questions:
In case of need which conditions do not need to be met?
What are the following surfaces more comparable to – placing on a bed or placing on the floor?
Kitchen countertop, table, refrigerator?
See קובץ הלכות ה’ שבת חלק ב פרק כו סע’ מז והערה אות סו
and אורחת שבת ח”א פרק ב סעיף מה והערה עג
And שמירת שבת כהלכתו פרק א סעיף כ אות ד והערה ס -סא
For the condition of עודו בידו does one need to hold the pot in their hands or is placing on the counter and keeping ones hand onto the pot handle sufficient?
Would the same apply if placed the pot on the floor and held onto to the handle?
See קובץ הלכות ה’ שבת חלק ב פרק כו סע’ מו והערה אות סד
and אורחת שבת ח”א פרק ב סעיף מז והערה עו
And שמירת שבת כהלכתו פרק א סעיף כ אות ד והערה סב
In the event someone removed a hot pot from the fire on Friday before Shabbos and placed it on the counter with intent to place on the blech and discovered on Shabbos that he forgot to place on the blech. May he place on the blech on Shabbos?
Are these cases similar to the case and machlokes between Rebbe Akiva Eiger & Rav Shachris or different?
If it is different is it more of a reason to say it is permissable to return to the bleach or prohibited? – Why?
1. A pot slides off the blech on to the counter top?
2. A pot slides to the floor?
3. The electricity or fire goes out?
(See אגרות משה או”ח חלק ד ס’ ע”ד בישול אות לא, קובץ הלכות ה’ שבת חלק ב פרק כו סע’ מט והערה סח, שמירת שבת כהלכתו פרק א סעיף כז והערה עט, שו”ת בצל החכמה חלק ד ס’ קלז ס”ק יט, אורחת שבת ח”א פרק ב סעיף מט והערה פב)
4. The electricity goes out and a few hours later goes back on by the electric company and the food remained on hot plate the entire time?
See אורחת שבת above)
5. Someone mistakenly takes the Shabbos day cholent off the fire thinking it is the chicken soup pot for the Friday night sueda and places on the counter without intent to return?
What if he places it on the ground?
(See קובץ הלכות ה’ שבת חלק ב פרק כו סע’ גם והערה עה, שמירת שבת כהלכתו פרק א סעיף כג והערה עה ,שו”ת בצל החכמה חלק ד ס’ קלז ס”ק יח, אורחת שבת ח”א פרק ב סעיף מה והערה עח)
Questions:
Write a summary of the laws of chazarah and all it’s conditions based on שולחן ערוך ס’ רנ”ג סעיף ב and the משנה ברורה
In case of need which conditions do not need to be met?
What are the following surfaces more comparable to – placing on a bed or placing on the floor?
Kitchen countertop, table, refrigerator?
See קובץ הלכות ה’ שבת חלק ב פרק כו סע’ מז והערה אות סו
and אורחת שבת ח”א פרק ב סעיף מה והערה עג
And שמירת שבת כהלכתו פרק א סעיף כ אות ד והערה ס -סא
For the condition of עודו בידו does one need to hold the pot in their hands or is placing on the counter and keeping ones hand onto the pot handle sufficient?
Would the same apply if placed the pot on the floor and held onto to the handle?
See קובץ הלכות ה’ שבת חלק ב פרק כו סע’ מו והערה אות סד
and אורחת שבת ח”א פרק ב סעיף מז והערה עו
And שמירת שבת כהלכתו פרק א סעיף כ אות ד והערה סב
In the event someone removed a hot pot from the fire on Friday before Shabbos and placed it on the counter with intent to place on the blech and discovered on Shabbos that he forgot to place on the blech. May he place on the blech on Shabbos?
Review ביאור הלכה ס’ רנ”ג סעיף ב “ואם הניח על גבי קרקע which summarizes the halacha of the case of Rebbe Akiva Eiger whether it is permitted to return a pot to the stovetop that was removed from the fire without permission of the owner without intent to return but it is still in his hand.
What is the halacha in the cases below?
Are these cases similar to the case and machlokes between Rebbe Akiva Eiger & Rav Shachris or different?
If it is different is it more of a reason to say it is permissable to return to the bleach or prohibited? – Why?
1. A pot slides off the blech on to the counter top?
2. A pot slides to the floor?
3. The electricity or fire goes out?
(See אגרות משה או”ח חלק ד ס’ ע”ד בישול אות לא, קובץ הלכות ה’ שבת חלק ב פרק כו סע’ מט והערה סח, שמירת שבת כהלכתו פרק א סעיף כז והערה עט, שו”ת בצל החכמה חלק ד ס’ קלז ס”ק יט, אורחת שבת ח”א פרק ב סעיף מט והערה פב)
4. The electricity goes out and a few hours later goes back on by the electric company and the food remained on hot plate the entire time?
See אורחת שבת above)
5. Someone mistakenly takes the Shabbos day cholent off the fire thinking it is the chicken soup pot for the Friday night sueda and places on the counter without intent to return?
What if he places it on the ground?
(See קובץ הלכות ה’ שבת חלק ב פרק כו סע’ גם והערה עה, שמירת שבת כהלכתו פרק א סעיף כג והערה עה ,שו”ת בצל החכמה חלק ד ס’ קלז ס”ק יח, אורחת שבת ח”א פרק ב סעיף מה והערה עח)
Write a summary of the laws of chazarah and all it’s conditions based on שולחן ערוך ס’ רנ”ג סעיף ב and the משנה ברורה
In case of need which conditions do not need to be met?
Questions:
What are the following surfaces more comparable to – placing on a bed or placing on the floor?
Kitchen countertop, table, refrigerator?
See קובץ הלכות ה’ שבת חלק ב פרק כו סע’ מז והערה אות סו
and אורחת שבת ח”א פרק ב סעיף מה והערה עג
And שמירת שבת כהלכתו פרק א סעיף כ אות ד והערה ס -סא
For the condition of עודו בידו does one need to hold the pot in their hands or is placing on the counter and keeping ones hand onto the pot handle sufficient?
Would the same apply if placed the pot on the floor and held onto to the handle?
See קובץ הלכות ה’ שבת חלק ב פרק כו סע’ מו והערה אות סד
and אורחת שבת ח”א פרק ב סעיף מז והערה עו
And שמירת שבת כהלכתו פרק א סעיף כ אות ד והערה סב
In the event someone removed a hot pot from the fire on Friday before Shabbos and placed it on the counter with intent to place on the blech and discovered on Shabbos that he forgot to place on the blech. May he place on the blech on Shabbos?
B) As long as there is no specific intent not to return?
What is the halacha if a pot slides off the blech onto the countertop, may it be returned to the blech?
If the electricity or fire goes out is it permitted to move the pot to a different fire?
Review ה’ רע”א ס’ רנ”ג אות ו
What is the reason if someone removes your pot from the fire on Shabbos and places it on the ground it is prohibited to return it to the stovetop?
According to Rebbe Akiva Eiger what is the machlokes between Tosfos and the Rash whether it is permitted to return a pot to the stovetop that was removed from the fire without permission of the owner without intent to return it to the fire but it is still in his hand?
Learn אבי עזרי ה’ שבת פרק ג הלכה י who asks a question on Rebbe Akiva Eiger
Learn ביאור הלכה ס’ רנ”ג סעיף ב “ואם הניח על גבי קרקע which summarizes the halacha of the case of Rebbe Akiva Eiger
Based on Rebbe Akiva Eiger what should be the halacha in the case a pot slides off the stovetop?
What is the point of disagreement between Rav Shach (אבי עזרי) and Rebbe Akiva Eiger?
See letter in back of ספר אורחת שבת ח”א from Hagaon Rav Shmuel Aurbach zt”l for an answer to the question of Rav Shach.
If someone removes your pot from the fire on Shabbos and places it in the ground is it permitted to return it to the stovetop?
If someone removes your pot from the fire on Shabbos and does not have intent to return it to the fire but it is still in his hand. Is it permitted to return it to the stovetop?
Learn ה’ רע”א ס’ רנ”ג אות ו
Learn ביאור הלכה ס’ רנ”ג סעיף ב “ואם הניח על גבי קרקע
Point to consider
Is the requirement of דעתו להחזיר to have specific intent to return or as long as do not have specific intent not to return?
What is the halacha if a pot slides off the blech onto the countertop, may it be returned to the blech?
If the electricity or fire goes out is it permitted to move the pot to a different fire?
What is the reason if someone removed your pot from the fire on Shabbos and placed it on the ground it is prohibited to return it to the stovetop?
According to Rebbe Akiva Eiger what is the machlokes between Tosfos and the Rash whether it is permitted to return a pot to the stovetop that was removed from the fire without permission of the owner without intent to return it to the fire but it is still in his hand?
Learn אבי עזרי ה’ שבת פרק ג הלכה י who asks a question on Rebbe Akiva Eiger
Based on Rebbe Akiva Eiger what should be the halacha in the case a pot slides off the stovetop?
What is the point of disagreement between Rav Shach (אבי עזרי) and Rebbe Akiva Eiger?
See letter in back of ספר אורחת שבת ח”א from Hagaon Rav Shmuel Auerbach zt”l for an answer to the question of Rav Shach.
Focus on the יש אומרים שכל זה אינו אסור – the chidush of the ר”ן from the ירושלמי
See משנה ברורה ס”ק סג-סז
Major Question:
Why does the Mishna Berura not permit returning a pot to the fire when it was placed on the ground with intent to return as the Rema says was the accepted practice?
Can we rely on the ruling of the ר”ן in cases of בדיעבד ?
Learn חזון איש או”ח ס’ ל”ז ס”ק יב
See שמירת שבת כהלכתו פרק א סעיף כא-כב
And קובץ הלכות פרק כו סעיף מה with footnote סג
Is the requirement of דעתו להחזיר to have specific intent to return or as long as do not have specific intent not to return.
What is the halacha if a pot slides off the blech on to the counter top, may it be returned to the blech?
If the electricity or fire goes out is it permitted to move the pot to a different fire?
Learn הגהות רע”א על שולחן ערוך ס’ רנ”ג אות ו
What is the reason if someone removes your pot from the fire on Shabbos and places it on the ground it is prohibited to return it to the stovetop?
According to Rebbe Akiva Eiger what is the machlokes between Tosfos and the Rash whether it is permitted to return a pot to the stovetop that was removes from the fire without permission of the owner without intent to return it to the fire but it is still in his hand?
Learn אבי עזרי ה’ שבת פרק ג הלכה י who asks a question on Rebbe Akiva Eiger
Based on Rebbe Akiva Eiger what should be the halacha in the case a pot slides off the stovetop?
What is the point of disagreement between Rav Shach (אבי עזרי) and Rebbe Akiva Eiger?
See letter in back of ספר אורחת שבת ח”א from Hagaon Rav Shmuel Auerbach zt”l for an answer to the question of Rav Shach.
