Category: Evening Chabura

Conclusion Sugya – מיגו דאתקצאי

Last week we discussed at length 

1. What is the reasoning of מיגו דאתקצאי?

The אפיקי ים חלק ב ס’ יט (first two paragraphs) explains the source is “והכינו” an item has to be prepared for use for Shabbos. If it was not prepared before Shabbos than it is Muktzah 

2. Why does ר”ש not hold of – מיגו דאתקצאי?

The אפיקי ים חלק ב ס’ יט – (page רד bottom of the right column “והנה”) gave two explanations

A) Either ר”ש does not agree to the requirement that an item needs to be prepared for Shabbos 

B) He agrees to והכינו however in a case where the person is anticipating using it on Shabbos although it might be off limits at the beginning of Shabbos it is considered prepared. 

3. Why does ר”ש agree that a large container of oil is muktza even after the flame goes out? 

The אפיקי ים חלק ב ס’ יט – (page רד – left column) explained as the lantern and oil were not prepared for use for Shabbos/

4. There is a machlokes about what the position of ר”ש is in regards to an animal that died on Shabbos whether it is Muktzah.

What is the reasoning behind this machlokes?

This is a matter of dispute between the אפיקי ים and the Chazon Ish. 

Learn חזון איש ס’ מא אות ד

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14336&st=&pgnum=125&hilite=

Clarify each of their explanations  

Learn רשב”א חולין דף טו “עד כאן לא שרי for his explanation of animal that was slaughtered on Shabbos to feed a sick person

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40907&st=&pgnum=215

Learn תוס’ “לדברי

Question:

Based on what we learnt from the אפיקי ים and the Chazon Ish how can we explain the logic that only when there is a combination of מוקצה מחמת איסור and מוקצה מחמת מיאוס will we say מיגו דאתקצאי ?

Major Question:

What is the reasoning of מיגו דאתקצאי?

We learnt the אפיקי ים חלק ב ס’ יט (first two paragraphs) the source is “והכינו” an item has to be prepared for use for Shabbos. If it was not prepared before Shabbos than it is Muktzah 

(See Monday email for the attachment of the copy of the אפיקי ים)

Why does ר”ש not hold of – מיגו דאתקצאי?

We learnt the אפיקי ים חלק ב ס’ יט – (page רד bottom of the right column “והנה” for an incredible explanation) who gives two options 

1. Either ר”ש does not agree to the requirement that an item needs to be prepared for Shabbos 

2. He agrees to והכינו however in a case where the person is anticipating using it on Shabbos although it might be off limits at the beginning of Shabbos it is considered prepared. 

The Gemara brought two opinions in regards to a large container of oil if ר”ש agrees that it is muktza even after the flame goes out.

What is the explanation for their argument?

Learn אפיקי ים חלק ב ס’ יט – (page רד bottom of the left column “ומה נעים” for an incredible explanation. 

Learn רשב”א חולין דף טו.https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40907&st=&pgnum=214

Learn חזון איש ס’ מא אות ד for a different explanation than the אפיקי ים

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14336&st=&pgnum=125&hilite=

Discussing the גמרא דף מד. “אבל כוס קערה ועששית until “א”ר זירא (two lines before the wide lines)

Questions:

Why does ר”ש agree that a כוס קערה ועששית remains Muktzah for the entire Shabbos even after the flame went out?

Learn ריטב”א 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14349&st=&pgnum=198

Does רבי אליעזר בן רבי שמעון also agree that a כוס קערה ועששית remains Muktzah for the entire Shabbos even after the flame went out?

Learn ח’ ר”ן 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40873&st=&pgnum=55

What is the point of dispute between ר”ש & רבי אליעזר בן רבי שמעון in regards to the oil that drips out of the lantern while the flame is still burning?

Learn רשב”א

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40907&st=&pgnum=65

Learn ח’ ר”ן

Important point :

Does ר”ש agree to the concept of מיגו דאתקצאי?

Bring a proof 

What is the reasoning of מיגו דאתקצאי?

Learn the אפיקי ים חלק ב ס’ יט – first two paragraphs.

Why does ר”ש not hold of – מיגו דאתקצאי?

Learn אפיקי ים חלק ב ס’ יט – (page רד bottom of the right column “והנה” for an incredible explanation)

The Gemara brought two opinions in regards to a large container of oil if ר”ש agrees that it is muktza even after the flame goes out.

What is the explanation for their argument?

Learn אפיקי ים חלק ב ס’ יט – (page רד bottom of the left column “ומה נעים” for an incredible explanation. 

Learn רשב”א חולין דף טו.https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40907&st=&pgnum=214

Learn חזון איש ס’ מא אות ד for a different explanation than the אפיקי ים

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14336&st=&pgnum=125&hilite=

Learn משנה דף מד and the גמרא until “א”ר זירא (two lines before the wide lines)

There are many points and disputes in this sugya.

Questions: 

Why is a נר ישן של חרס Muktzah?

What is the point of dispute between ר”י & ר”ש in regards to מוקצה מחמת מיאוס?

According to ר”מ why does a lantern that was lit when Shabbos started remain Muktzah for the entire Shabbos even after the flame went out?

Why does ר”ש agree that a כוס קערה ועששית remains Muktzah for the entire Shabbos even after the flame went out?

Learn ריטב”א 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14349&st=&pgnum=198

Does רבי אליעזר בן רבי שמעון also agree that a כוס קערה ועששית remains Muktzah for the entire Shabbos even after the flame went out?

Learn ח’ ר”ן 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40873&st=&pgnum=55

What is the point of dispute between ר”ש & רבי אליעזר בן רבי שמעון in regards to the oil that drips out of the lantern while the flame is still burning?

Learn רשב”א

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40907&st=&pgnum=65

Learn ח’ ר”ן

Quickly review תוס’ דף מב: “ואין

Is the oil Muktza to move or just prohibited to use?

Learn מהרש”א on Tosfos 

According to ר”ש is the oil that drips out while the lantern is still burning just Muktza in regards to using the oil or also Muktzah for moving? 

Learn גליון הש”ס on Tosfos 

What is the point of dispute between the מהרש”א on “תוס’ דף מב: “אין and the גליון הש”ס on Tosfos?

List the different reasons why the oil is Muktzah and the נפקא מינה between the reasons 

Learn משנה דף מד and the גמרא until “א”ר זירא (two lines before the wide lines)

There are many points and disputes in this sugya.

Questions: 

Why is a נר ישן של חרס Muktzah?

What is the point of dispute between ר”י & ר”ש in regards to מוקצה מחמת מיאוס?

According to ר”מ why does a lantern that was lit when Shabbos started remain Muktzah for the entire Shabbos even after the flame went out?

Why does ר”ש agree that a כוס קערה ועששית remains Muktzah for the entire Shabbos even after the flame went out?

Learn ריטב”א 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14349&st=&pgnum=198

Does רבי אליעזר בן רבי שמעון also agree that a כוס קערה ועששית remains Muktzah for the entire Shabbos even after the flame went out?

Learn ח’ ר”ן 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40873&st=&pgnum=55

What is the point of dispute between ר”ש & רבי אליעזר בן רבי שמעון in regards to the oil that drips out of the lantern while the flame is still burning?

Learn רשב”א

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40907&st=&pgnum=65

Learn ח’ ר”ן

Learn גמרא דף מד. “אין נאותים until the Mishna 

Learn תוס’ דף מד.”שבנר

Learn תוס’ דף מב: ואין

Is the oil Muktza to move or just prohibited to use?

Learn מהרש”א on Tosfos 

According to ר”ש is the oil that drips out while the lantern is still burning just Muktza in regards to using the oil or also Muktzah for moving? 

Learn גליון הש”ס on Tosfos 

What is the point of dispute between the מהרש”א on תוס’ דף מב: “אין and the גליון הש”ס on Tosfos?

List the different reasons why the oil is Muktzah and the נפקא מינה between the reasons 

Learn משנה דף מד and the גמרא until “אבל כוס קערה ועששית (middle of the Amud)

Conclusion Sugya: טלטול מן הצד 

The שו”ע ס’ שי”א סע’ ח makes a distinction between moving for the purpose of the Muktzah item (prohibited) or for the non Muktza item (permitted) – לצורך דבר המותר או לדבר האסור 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=234

What is the logic of this distinction; Either indirect movement is considered movement or it is not considered movement, how does the intent of the movement affect the permissibility?

There are two approaches to explain this 

1. Review שו”ע ס’ ש”ט סע’ ד, with the משנה ברורה ס”ק יד and the שער הציון ס’ ש”ט אות יז who gives a reason for the distinction 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=228

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=229

2. Review חזון איש ס’ מז ס”ק יב-יד who gives a different reason for the distinction and argues on the Shulchan Aruch. 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14336&st=&pgnum=141

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14336&st=&pgnum=142

Moving Muktzah with ones body – טלטול בגופו 

The שו”ע ס’ שי”א סע’ ח also permits טלטול בגופו even for the purpose of the Muktzah item.

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=234

Review the רמ”א ס’ ש”ח סע’ ג permits moving Muktzah by blowing it. 

and משנה ברורה ס’ ש”ח ס”ק יג which permits טלטול בגופו

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=215

The Chazon Ish (above) argues on the leniency of moving Muktzah with one’s body for the purpose of the Muktzah item. 

How does the Chazon Ish explain the Mishna which permits moving straw with one’s back?

See תשובה מהגאון ר’ משה פיינשטיין in back of Sefer Muktzah from Rabbi Pinchas Bodner אות לב

See שמירת שבת כהלכתו פרק כח הערה נט

Please write a summary (include as sources) of how we conclude lhalacha in regards to 

1. Moving Muktzah through טלטול מן הצד

2.The reason it is permitted 

3. Moving Muktzah with ones body טלטול בגופו 

Conclusion Sugya: טלטול מן הצד 

How do we conclude lhalacha in regards to moving Muktzah through טלטול מן הצד?

We learned the שו”ע ס’ שי”א סע’ א which rules that טלטול מן הצד  is prohibited 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14325&st=&pgnum=132

See משנה ברורה ס”ק ו 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=234

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=235

The שו”ע ס’ שי”א סע’ ח makes a distinction between moving for the purpose of the Muktzah item (prohibited) or for the non Muktza item (permitted) – לצורך דבר המותר או לדבר האסור 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=234

What is the logic of this distinction; Either indirect movement is considered movement or it is not considered movement, how does the intent of the movement affect the permissibility?

There are two approaches to explain this 

1. Review שו”ע ס’ ש”ט סע’ ד, with the משנה ברורה ס”ק יד and the שער הציון ס’ ש”ט אות יז who gives a reason for the distinction 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=228

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=229

2. Review חזון איש ס’ מז ס”ק יב-יד who gives a different reason for the distinction and argues on the Shulchan Aruch. 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14336&st=&pgnum=141

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14336&st=&pgnum=142

Moving Muktzah with ones body – טלטול בגופו 

The שו”ע ס’ שי”א סע’ ח also permits טלטול בגופו even for the purpose of the Muktzah item.

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=234

Review the רמ”א ס’ ש”ח סע’ ג permits moving Muktzah by blowing it. 

and משנה ברורה ס’ ש”ח ס”ק יג which permits טלטול בגופו

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=215

The Chazon Ish (above) argues on the leniency of moving Muktzah with one’s body for the purpose of the Muktzah item. 

How does the Chazon Ish explain the Mishna which permits moving straw with one’s back?

See תשובה מהגאון ר’ משה פיינשטיין in back of Sefer Muktzah from Rabbi Pinchas Bodner אות לב

See שמירת שבת כהלכתו פרק כח הערה נט

New Sugya: טלטול מן הצד 

Very quickly review גמרא דף מג: “דא”ר שמואל בר יהודה until the two dots on דף מד. 

Learn תוס’ דף מג: “טלטול מן הצד

What’s the conclusion of Tosfos as to when טלטול מן הצד is permitted?

Quickly review רא”ש פרק ג ס’ יט 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37953&st=&pgnum=356

What new type of טלטול does the Rosh allow?

Does Tosfos permit this?

Does Rashi permit it?

Learn ריף

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37953&st=&pgnum=590

How do we conclude lhalacha?

How do we conclude lhalacha in regards to moving Muktzah through טלטול מן הצד?

Learn שו”ע ס’ שי”א סע’ א

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14325&st=&pgnum=132

and מגן אברהם ס”ק ה

See משנה ברורה ס”ק ו

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=234

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=235

Learn שו”ע ס’ ש”ט סע’ ד

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=228

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=229

See משנה ברורה ס”ק יד 

and שער הציון ס’ ש”ט אות יז 

See שולחן ערוך ס’ ש”ח סע’ ג

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14325&st=&pgnum=120

And מגן אברהם ס”ק ז   

and משנה ברורה ס”ק יג     

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=215

See חזון איש ס’ מז ס”ק יב-יד 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14336&st=&pgnum=141

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14336&st=&pgnum=142

Conclusion of Topic: טלטול מוקצה ע”י ככר או תינוק 

Explaining גמרא דף מג: “דא”ר שמואל בר יהודה until the two dots on דף מד. 

Rebbe Akiva Eiger asks ( גליון הש”ס) why can’t the mattress underneath the dead person act in same way as the ככר או תינוק to allow one to move the dead person?

Summarize the answers  

1. The רש”ש דף מג עמ’ ב 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37953&st=&pgnum=807

2. The חזון איש או”ח ס’ מז ס”ק כג 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14336&st=&pgnum=143

Learn מגן אברהם ס’ ש”ח ס”ק נא 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14325&st=&pgnum=125

3. The מגן אברהם ס’ שי”א ס”ק א says that the ככר או תינוק may be placed adjacent to the dead body and does not need to be placed on top. 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14325&st=&pgnum=132

The משנה ברורה ס’ שי”א ס”ק א & ב

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=234

See ביאור הלכה ס’ שי”א סע’ ד “יש מי שאומר

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=236

In conclusion- 

How does placing a ככר או תינוק circumvent the issue of moving Muktzah directly? 

According to 

1. Rebbe Akiva Eiger 

2. Chazon Ish 

3. Magen Avraham 

New Sugya: טלטול מן הצד 

Very quickly review גמרא דף מג: “דא”ר שמואל בר יהודה until the two dots on דף מד. 

Learn תוס’ דף מג: “טלטול מן הצד

Topic: טלטול מוקצה ע”י ככר או תינוק 

Explaining גמרא דף מג: “דא”ר שמואל בר יהודה until the two dots on דף מד. 

Key Point:

How does placing a ככר או תינוק circumvent the issue of moving Muktzah directly? 

Review גליון הש”ס on the side of our Gemara who asks why can’t the mattress underneath the dead person act in same way as the bread or baby to allow one to move the dead person?

What is the mechanism of permission to move a dead body through a ככר או תינוק according to Rebbe Akiva Eiger?

Learn רש”ש דף מג עמ’ ב who gives an answer to Rebbe Akiva Eiger question

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37953&st=&pgnum=807

Learn מגן אברהם ס’ ש”ח ס”ק נא 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14325&st=&pgnum=125

Question on the Magen Avraham:

What is the comparison of the permission to move ע”י ככר או תינוק to the case of the table? 

See ביאור הלכה ס’ שי”א סע’ ד “יש מי שאומר

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=236

Learn  חזון איש או”ח ס’ מז ס”ק כג who gives an answer to Rebbe Akiva Eiger question

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14336&st=&pgnum=143

The מגן אברהם ס’ שי”א ס”ק א says that the ככר או תינוק may be placed adjacent to the dead body and does not need to be placed on top. 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14325&st=&pgnum=132

Does the Magen Avraham agree with the explanation of the חזון איש ?

Learn משנה ברורה ס’ שי”א ס”ק א & ב

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=234

Topic: טלטול מוקצה ע”י ככר או תינוק 

Very quickly review גמרא דף מג: “דא”ר שמואל בר יהודה until the two dots on דף מד. 

Key point to consider:

How does placing a ככר או תינוק circumvent the issue of moving Muktzah directly? 

Questions: 

Does the ככר או תינוק have to placed on top of the dead body or is it sufficient to place it adjacent?

Review שולחן ערוך ס’ שי”א סע’ א 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14325&st=&pgnum=132

Learn מגן אברהם ס”ק א who says that the ככר או תינוק is placed adjacent to the dead body. 

Question on Magen Avraham:

How does placing the ככר או תינוק adjacent to the dead body permit one to carry the dead body?

See פרי מגדים אשל אברהם ס”ק א

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=41248&st=&pgnum=195

Is the permission to carry Muktzah item by placing ככר או תינוק limited to a dead person or also for other items of Muktza?

Review גמרא דף קמב: “מעות שעל הכר (two dots in wide lines) until אביי מנח” 

https://hebrewbooks.org/shas.aspx?mesechta=2&daf=142b&format=pdf

Learn שולחן ערוך ס’ שי”א סע’ ה which says it is specific to a dead body. 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14325&st=&pgnum=133

Learn שולחן ערוך ס’ ש”ח סע’ ה which says some opinions allow placing a ככר או תינוק on a כלי שמלאכתו לאיסור to permit moving it out of the sun. 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14325&st=&pgnum=120

See מגן אברהם ס”ק יג that says this permission can be accomplished by placing any item on top of the כלי שמלאכתו לאיסור

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14325&st=&pgnum=121

How can one reconcile these two halachos which are seemingly contradictory? 

Learn ט”ז ס’ שי”א ס”ק ה

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14325&st=&pgnum=133

Learn גליון הש”ס on the side of our Gemara who asks why can’t the mattress underneath the dead person act in same way as the bread or baby to allow one to move the dead person?

What is the mechanism of permission to move a dead body through a ככר או תינוק according to Rebbe Akiva Eiger?

Learn מגן אברהם ס’ ש”ח ס”ק נא 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14325&st=&pgnum=125

Question on the Magen Avraham:

What is the comparison of the permission to move ע”י ככר או תינוק to the case of the table? 

See ביאור הלכה ס’ שי”א סע’ ד “יש מי שאומר

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=236

Topic: טלטול מוקצה ע”י ככר או תינוק 

Review גמרא דף מג: “דא”ר שמואל בר יהודה until “לימא כתנאי” (two lines before the wide lines) 

Questions: 

Is the permission to carry a dead body by placing a baby or bread on top a permission based on טלטול מן הצד?

Is the permission to carry a Muktzah item by placing bread or baby on top of it limited to a dead person or also for other items of Muktza?

Learn גמרא דף קמב: “מעות שעל הכר (two dots in wide lines) until אביי מנח” 

https://hebrewbooks.org/shas.aspx?mesechta=2&daf=142b&format=pdf

Learn ריטב”א דף מג: “ואמרינן 

Learn תוס’ רי”ד דף מג: “כי פליגי

See גליון הש”ס on the side of our Gemara who asks why can’t the mattress underneath the dead person act in same way as the bread or baby to allow one to move the dead person?

See מגן אברהם ס’ ש”ח ס”ק נא 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14325&st=&pgnum=125

Question on the Magen Avraham:

What is the comparison of the permission to move ע”י ככר או תינוק to the case of the table? 

See ביאור הלכה ס’ שי”א סע’ דף “יש מי שאומר