Category: Gemara

Conclusion of אתי אוירא מהאי גיסא ואוירא מהאי גיסא ומבטלה 

Question:

In the case of עור העסלא (on bottom of דף י עמוד ב) if the total width of the seat is one tefach it is an אהל לטומאה. We discussed earlier a concept of אתי אוירא מהאי גיסא ואוירא מהאי גיסא ומבטלה. Why when the space between the two solid planks is equal or larger than the solid part don’t we apply the rule of אתי אוירא?  The solid part of the seat should be negated and no longer considered an אהל לטומאה ?

Learn “תוס’ “ואצבעיים who explains some principles of when we do not apply the concept of אתי אוירא מהאי גיסא ואוירא מהאי גיסא ומבטלה

Quickly review the משנה דף ב

Learn the גמרא דף י עמוד ב “אם יש לו צורת הפתח (two dots – four lines form bottom of the Amud) until “מתני לה” (eight lines from top of the Amud)

Sugya: אמלתרא

Major Question:

The gemara inquires whether an אמלתרא would help a Korah be a valid Tikun for a Mavui whose opening is wider than 10 Amos. The Gemara (3a) said the benefit of an אמלתרא is that it attracts attention and makes the Korah noticable therefore a Korah with an אמלתרא can be placed higher than 20 Amos. An opening wider than 10 Amos is considered a Pirtzah. How could an אמלתרא help for an opening wider than 10 Amos as the issue is entirely different?

See ב”ח ס’ שס”ג סעיף כו

And שפת אמת דף ג. לא תהני

How do we conclude l’halacha regarding whether an אמלתרא can help for an opening wider than 10 Amos? 

Sugya: צורת הפתח

Learn ‘תוס’ דף יט “איפכא 

Learn the גמרא דף י: “תנן התם  (middle of the Amud) until the two dots.

Questions:

Why don’t we consider the airspace between the pieces of leather as closed with the concept of לבוד? 

Learn “תוס’ “עור

And רשב”א  who gives a different answer. 

What are the principles of when we do not apply the concept of אתי אוירא מהאי גיסא ואוירא מהאי גיסא ומבטלה?

Learn “תוס’ “ואצבעיים   

ery quickly review the “גמרא דף י: “וליחוש (seventeen lines from top of the Amud) until “תנן התם” 

The gemara says we are not concerned that people will abandon the larger opening for the smaller opening unless there is a gain of a shortcut. 

What happens if the people actually do abandon the larger opening?

Learn שולחן ארוך או”ח ס’ שס”ג סע’ לד with the משנה ברורה

Is the Shulchan Aruch explaining the issue of abandoning the larger opening like Rashi or the Meiri?

See

The Shulchan Aruch says placing a tzuras hapesach on the smaller opening will allow one to carry inside the mavui. Could one place a Lechi or Korah instead?

See ה’ רע”א who questions why placing a tzuras hapesach on the smaller opening will allow one to carry inside the mavui?

See משנה ברורה ס”ק ק”נ 

Continue learning the גמרא דף י: “תנן התם  (middle of the Amud) until the two dots.

Learn “תוס’ “עור

Learn “תוס’ “ואצבעיים   

Quickly review the גמרא דף י: “וליחוש (seventeen lines from top of the Amud) until “תנן התם” 

The Gemara discusses a case where the fourth side of the Mavui is 15 Amos wide and places a board 3 Amos wide leaving a gap of space of 2 Amos between the board and the wall. 

Questions:

What is the problem if the people stop traveling through the larger opening and only go through the smaller opening? 

Rashi says one reason 

See ח’ מאירי “וליחוש  who says a different reason. 

Does one need to place a Lechi or Korah for the gap of 2 Amos? 

Learn חידושי מאירי beginning of of דף י עמוד ב who quotes the Raavad 

Does one need to place a Lechi or Korah in addition to the פס for the opening of 10 Amos? 

See “תוס’ “ועושה who says he needs a Lechi or Korah 

Why does the Lechi need to be within three tefachim of the wall?

See רבינו יהונתן דף יד: על המשנה “ר’ יוסי

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14312&st=&pgnum=332

Learn מגן אברהם ס’ שס”ג ס”ק ה who explains there is a dispute between Tosfos and רבינו יהונתן?

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14325&st=&pgnum=231

In the case where the entrance to the Mavui is 20 Amos wide and places a board four Amos long in the middle of the entrance in the direction of the side walls. 

Does one need to place a Lechi or Korah on only one of the openings or on both?

See רש”י דף ה. “מתיר בפרצה

The gemara says we are not concerned that people will abandon the larger opening for the smaller opening unless there is a gain of a shortcut. 

What happens if the people actually do abandon the larger opening?

See שולחן ארוך או”ח ס’ שס””ג סע’ לד and משנה ברורה ס”ק נ 

Learn the גמרא דף י: “וליחוש (seventeen lines from top of the Amud) until “תנן התם” 

This gemara is a continuation from the Gemara last week.  

Does one need to place a Lechi or Korah in addition to the פס?

If yes, where?

Learn חידושי מאירי  

Learn “תוס’ “ועושה

Why does the Lechi need to be within three tefachim of the wall?

See רבינו יהונתן דף יד: על המשנה “ר’ יוסי

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14312&st=&pgnum=332

Does Tosfos agree to the reason of רבינו יהונתן?

Learn מגן אברהם ס’ שס”ג ס”ק ה

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14325&st=&pgnum=231

Zoom link for those who can not attend live.

Same zoom link for the entire morning

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/98313738910?pwd=S0NzYThFSG01S05KcTEybmxrY2JGZz09

Quickly review the גמרא דף י: “אי נמי until “וליחוש”

The Gemara introduces four concepts

1. פרוץ מרובה על העומד

2. עומד מרובה משני רוחות 

3. פרוץ כעומד

4. אתי אוירא .. ומבטלה 

According to the opinion that עומד מרובה משני רוחות  is considered עומד מרובה does it have exactly the same status of עומד מרובה or is it a lower tier?

The gemara says it’s possible that פרוץ כעומד is good yet we still would say אתי אוירא מהאי גיסא ואוירא מהאי גיסא ומבטלה. If פרוץ  is indeed כעומד why should it be any different than when the Amud is larger than the adjacent gap of air in which we do not say אתי אוירא ומבטלה? 

Learn רש”ש 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14312&st=&pgnum=298

On דף ה עמוד ב we discussed a ח’ גרי”ז בכורות דף יז who brings a proof from רמב”ם to the same principle of the רש”ש.

Is there a benefit with any of these options more than the solution that Rav Yehuda presented?

Learn “תוס’ “ואמאי 

Does one need to place a Lechi or Korah in addition to the פס?

If yes, where?

Learn חידושי מאירי  

Learn “תוס’ “ועושה

Why does the Lechi need to be within three tefachim of the wall?

See רבינו יהונתן דף יד: על המשנה “ר’ יוסי

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14312&st=&pgnum=332

Does Tosfos agree to the reason of רבינו יהונתן?

Learn מגן אברהם ס’ שס”ג ס”ק ה

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14325&st=&pgnum=231

Quickly review the גמרא דף י: “אי נמי until “וליחוש”

Clarify the four concepts the gemara introduces 

1. פרוץ מרובה על העומד

2. עומד מרובה משני רוחות 

3. פרוץ כעומד

4. אתי אוירא .. ומבטלה 

Why don’t we consider the remaining opening of ten Amos to be פרוץ מרובה  from the Amud adjacent to it?

See ח’ מאירי דף י (In middle) from “ואע”ג דפרוץ דפתח מרובה 

The gemara says it’s possible that פרוץ כעומד is good yet we still would say אתי אוירא מהאי גיסא ואוירא מהאי גיסא ומבטלה. If פרוץ  is indeed כעומד why should it be any different than when the Amud is larger than the adjacent gap of air in which we do not say אתי אוירא ומבטלה? 

Learn רש”ש 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14312&st=&pgnum=298

On דף ה עמוד ב we discussed a ח’ גרי”ז בכורות דף יז who brings a proof from רמב”ם to the same principle of the רש”ש.

Is there a benefit with any of these options more than the solution that Rav Yehuda presented?

Learn “תוס’ “ואמאי 

Does one need to place a Lechi or Korah in addition to the פס?

If yes, where?

Learn חידושי מאירי  

Learn “תוס’ “ועושה

Why does the Lechi need to be within three tefachim of the wall?

See רבינו יהונתן דף יד: על המשנה “ר’ יוסי

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14312&st=&pgnum=332

Does Tosfos agree to the reason of רבינו יהונתן?

Learn מגן אברהם ס’ שס”ג ס”ק ה

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14325&st=&pgnum=231

Zoom link for those who can not attend live.

Same zoom link for the entire morning

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/98313738910?pwd=S0NzYThFSG01S05KcTEybmxrY2JGZz09

Review the גמרא דף י. “תני לוי (four lines from bottom of the Amud) until דף י: “אי נמי  

Questions:

Rashi says a single post help can not reduce the size of the opening of the Mavui because אתי אוירא מהאי גיסא ואוירא מהאי גיסא ומבטלה

See רש”י דף י. “אין

See ח’ רע”א who asks on Rashi the gemara at this stage does not know of the concept of אתי אוירא ומבטל?

The Gemara first solution to reduce the size of the opening of the Mavui is to place a panel of four Amos continue learning the gemara which presents an alternate solution 

Continue learning the גמרא דף י: “אי נמי until “וליחוש”

Clarify the three concepts the gemara introduces of פרוץ מרובה על העומד, פרוץ כעומד, אתי אוירא .. ומבטלה 

List the three other options of the size and positioning the Gemara suggests for the panels of wood to reduce the size of the opening of the mavui. 

Is there a benefit with any of these options more than the solution that Rav Yehuda presented?

Learn “תוס’ “ואמאי 

Does one need to place a Lechi or Korah in addition to the פס?

If yes, where?

Learn “תוס’ “ועושה

Learn the “גמרא דף י. “תני לוי (four lines from bottom of the Amud) until דף י: “ואמאי יעשה 

Questions:

Why doesn’t a single post help to divide the size of the opening of the Mavui?

See רש”י דף י. “אין

See ח’ רע”א who asks on Rashi the gemara at this stage does not know of the concept of אתי אוירא ומבטל?

How does placing a panel four Amos in the direction of the depth of the Mavui remove the issue of the size of the opening of the Mavui greater than ten Amos?

Learn ריטב”א דף י: “עושה who presents two different ways to explain the solution. 

Learn תוס’ דף י: “עושה פס גבוה

Is Tosfos explaining like Rashi or the Ritva?

Why don’t we say אתי אוירא ומבטל on the panel of four Amos?

See ריטב”א  and רשב”א for an answer