Category: Gemara

Halachic Conclusion 

Is it permitted to place uncooked food inside a Kli Sheini?

Learn  מגן אברהם ס”ק ט”ו

Learn טור אורח חיים ס’ שי”ח סע’ ה 

Learn שולחן ערוך אורח חיים ס’ שי”ח סע’ ה

Is the Rema explaining or arguing on the Mechaber?

Learn מגן אברהם ס”ק י”ח & י”ט 

Major Question:

The Magen Avraham seems to contradict himself whether it is prohibited to place uncooked foods inside a Kli Sheini as it is מיחזי כמבשל?

Learn פרי מגדים אשל אברהם ס”ק י”ט

Learn שולחן ערוך אורח חיים ס’ שי”ח סע’ ד ,ה & ט with the משנה ברורה 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=278

May raw items be placed in a Kli Shlishi?

See פרי מגדים אשל אברהם ס”ק לה

See משנה ברורה ס”ק מז & מח

Note the stringency of the Chayei Adam 

See חזון איש 

How is it permitted to make tea on Shabbos?

See משנה ברורה ס”ק לט

Halachic Conclusion 

Is it permitted to place salt in a Kli Rishon? Kli Sheini?

What items cook in a Kli Rishon? 

What items cook in a Kli Sheini?

Learn שולחן ערוך אורח חיים ס’ שי”ח סע’ דף,ה & ט with the משנה ברורה

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=273

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=274

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=275

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=276

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=278

May raw items be placed in a Kli Shlishi?

See פרי מגדים אשל אברהם ס”ק לה

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=41248&st=&pgnum=204

See משנה ברורה ס”ק מז & מח

Note the stringency of the chayei Adam 

See חזון איש 

How is it permitted to make tea on Shabbos?

See משנה ברורה ס”ק לט

Review גמרא דף מב: “סבר רב יוסף (eight lines from top of the Amud) until the Mishna 

How do we conclude?

Is it permitted to place salt in a Kli Rishon? Kli Sheini?

Learn תוס’ “והיינו דר”נ 

Learn רי”ף & ר”ן 

Learn רא”ש ס’ י”ז

In conclusion 

What items cook in a Kli Rishon? 

What items cook in a Kli Sheini?

Learn גמרא דף מב: “סבר רב יוסף (eight lines from top of the Amud) until the Mishna 

How do we conclude?

Is it permitted to place salt in a Kli Rishon? Kli Sheini?

Learn תוס’ “והיינו דר”נ 

Learn רי”ף  & ר”ן 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37953&st=&pgnum=589&hilite=

Learn רא”ש ס’ י”ז

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37953&st=&pgnum=355

In conclusion 

What items cook in a Kli Rishon? 

What items cook in a Kli Sheini?

Learn שולחן ערוך אורח חיים ס’ שי”ח סע’ ט and the משנה ברורה 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=278

Practical Halacha 

How do we conclude in regards to עירוי כלי ראשון ?

Learn שולחן ערוך אורח חיים ס’ שי”ח סע’ ד (focus on the end from אבל מדיחין) 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=273

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=274

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=60388&st=&pgnum=275

Shulchan Aruch rules that it is permitted to pour hot water on top of an uncooked item. 

Is this pouring from a Kli Rishon or a Kli Sheini?

See משנה ברורה ס”ק לה

Why?

Learn שולחן ערוך אורח חיים ס’ שי”ח סע’ י

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14325&st=&pgnum=156

See ט”ז ס”ק טז

And מגן אברהם ס”ק לב 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14325&st=&pgnum=157

See פרי מגדים אשל אברהם ס”ק לב

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=41248&st=&pgnum=204

Learn גמרא דף מב: “סבר רב יוסף (eight lines from top of the Amud) until the Mishna 

How do we conclude?

Is it permitted to place salt in a Kli Rishon? Kli Sheini?

Learn תוס’ “והיינו דר”נ 

Learn רי”ף  & ר”ן 

Learn רא”ש ס’ י”ז

In conclusion 

What items cook in a Kli Rishon? 

What items cook in a Kli Sheini?

We learnt Tosfos (תוס’  דף מב: “אבל) who brings a machlokes Rishonim whether liquids being poured from a Kli Rishon have a status of Kli Rishon or Kli Sheini – עירוי כלי ראשון ככלי ראשון או ככלי שני. 

List the three opinions quotes in Tosfos

Review אגלי טל מלאכה אופה ס”ק ל”א אות א who lists a fourth opinion (Rabbeinu Yonah). 

And how he explains each Rishon refutes the proof against them.

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14401&st=&pgnum=255

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14401&st=&pgnum=256

Practical Halacha 

How do we conclude in regards to עירוי כלי ראשון ?

Learn שולחן ערוך אורח חיים ס’ שי”ח סע’ ד (focus on the end from אבל מדיחין) 

Shulchan Aruch rules it is permitted to pour hot water on top of an uncooked item. 

Is this a pouring from a Kli Rishon or a Kli Sheini?

See משנה ברורה ס”ק לה

Why?

Learn שולחן ערוך אורח חיים ס’ שי”ח סע’ י

See ט”ז ס”ק טז

And מגן אברהם ס”ק לב 

See פרי מגדים אשל אברהם ס”ק לב

Learn גמרא דף מב: “סבר רב יוסף (eight lines from top of the Amud) until the Mishna 

Learn תוס’ “והיינו דר”נ 

Tosfos (תוס’  דף מב: “אבל) presented a machlokes between the Rashbam and the Ri/Rabbeinu Tam whether liquids being poured from a Kli Rishon have a status of Kli Rishon or Kli Sheini – עירוי כלי ראשון ככלי ראשון או ככלי שני. 

Review the משנה דף לט and learn תוס’ דף לט “כל in regards to what is permitted to pour hot liquids from a Kli Rishon and what is permitted to be placed inside a Kli Shieni. 

The Rishonim discuss this machlokes at length and bring different proofs 

See ר”ן & רא”ש (they are lengthy – see it quickly to get an overview)

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37953&st=&pgnum=589

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37953&st=&pgnum=355

Learn אגלי טל מלאכה אופה ס”ק ל”א אות א who lists the three opinions brought in Tosfos and an additional fourth opinion (Rabbeinu Yonah). See how he explains each one answers the proofs against them. 

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14401&st=&pgnum=255

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14401&st=&pgnum=256

Quickly review גמרא מב: איבעיא until “סבר רב יוסף”

The Mishna delineates difference between a Kli Rishon and a Kli Sheini. 

What is the status of liquids while they are being poured from a Kli Rishon?

Learn תוס’ “אבל who brings a machlokes whether they have a status of Kli Rishon or Kli Sheini – עירוי כלי ראשון ככלי ראשון או ככלי שני 

What is the basis for the opinion that it has the status of Kli Rishon?

What is the basis for the opinion that it has the status of Kli Sheini?

List the proofs for each position 

The Rishonim discuss this machlokes at length and bring different proofs 

See ר”ן

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37953&st=&pgnum=589

& רא”ש

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37953&st=&pgnum=355

(they are lengthy – see it quickly to get an overview)

In conclusion there are four opinions 

Learn אגלי טל מלאכה אופה ס’ ל”א ס”ק א who lists all four and how each opinion answers the proofs against them.

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14401&st=&pgnum=255

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14401&st=&pgnum=256

Review משנה דף מב (bottom of the Amud) and the גמרא מב: איבעיא until “סבר רב יוסף”

The Gemara concluded that רבי יהודה permit placing items in a Kli Rishon except if it has brine

Review תוס’ “לכל
Question:
Why is this permission limited to spices?

The Mishna delineates difference between a Kli Rishon and a Kli Sheini.
What is the status of liquids while they are being poured from a Kli Rishon?

Bring a proof from the Mishna

Learn תוס’ “אבל who brings a machlokes whether they have a status of Kli Rishon or Kli Sheini – עירוי כלי ראשון ככלי ראשון או ככלי שני

What is the basis for the opinion that it has the status of Kli Rishon?
What is the basis for the opinion that it has the status of Kli Sheini?
List the proofs for each position

Special shout out to Bruce Goldberg and Dr Cohen for sending in their summary of the previous Sugya. Please give yourself the greatest gift, the feeling of joy of clarity and accomplishment, by writing a summary of the last Sugya.Learn משנה דף מב (bottom of the Amud) and the גמרא מב: איבעיא until “סבר רב יוסף”

Questions:

What is the reason that רבי יהודה would be lenient and permit placing items in a Kli Rishon except if it has brine?

What is the reason that רבי יהודה would be stringent and prohibit placing items in a Kli Sheini that has brine?

Does this prohibition apply to all food items?

Learn תוס’ “לכל

The Mishna delineates difference between a Kli Rishon and a Kli Sheini. 

What is the Halacha in regards to pouring liquids from a Kli Rishon on to a food item?

Learn תוס’ “אבל