{"id":29791,"date":"2023-06-14T23:10:00","date_gmt":"2023-06-14T23:10:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/?p=29791"},"modified":"2023-06-16T03:22:00","modified_gmt":"2023-06-16T03:22:00","slug":"rabbi-baruch-bodenheim-gemara-sukkah-fourth-perek-wednesday-night-shiur-sivan-26-daf-43a-06-14-23","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/rabbi-baruch-bodenheim-gemara-sukkah-fourth-perek-wednesday-night-shiur-sivan-26-daf-43a-06-14-23\/","title":{"rendered":"Rabbi Baruch Bodenheim: Gemara Sukkah: Fourth Perek, Wednesday night shiur, Sivan 26, Daf 43a (06\/14\/23)"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<figure class=\"wp-block-audio\"><audio controls src=\"https:\/\/images.shulcloud.com\/13521\/uploads\/YNB-PTI\/shiurim\/rabbibodenheim\/rabbibodenheimeveningchaburagemarasukkahfourthperek06142023.MP3\"><\/audio><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\"><strong>Click on Right Side of Player to&nbsp;Download&nbsp;the Shiur<\/strong><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>Learn \u05d2\u05de\u05e8\u05d0 \u05d3\u05e3 \u05de\u05d2: &#8220;\u05e2\u05e8\u05d1\u05d4 \u05e9\u05d1\u05e2\u05d4 \u05db\u05d9\u05e6\u05d3 (two dots) until \u05d0\u05d9\u05ea\u05d9\u05d1\u05d9\u05d4 \u05d0\u05d1\u05d9\u05d9 (middle of the Amud)&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Questions<\/strong>:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Why doesn&#8217;t the&nbsp;Gemara&nbsp;open with a similar question that it asked on&nbsp;Lulav&nbsp;on \u05d3\u05e3 \u05de\u05d1 asking why&nbsp;Aravah&nbsp;is not taken on the first six days of Sukkos when it coincides with Shabbos?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The&nbsp;Gemara&nbsp;says&nbsp;Aravah&nbsp;is permitted to be taken on Shabbos when it coincides with Hoshana Rabbah because \u05e9\u05dc\u05d5\u05d7\u05d9 \u05d1\u05d9\u05ea \u05d3\u05d9\u05df \u05de\u05d9\u05d9\u05ea\u05d9 \u05dc\u05d4&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Is this a retraction from the first reason of \u05dc\u05e4\u05e8\u05e1\u05d5\u05dd \u05e9\u05d4\u05d9\u05d0 \u05de\u05df \u05d4\u05ea\u05d5\u05e8\u05d4?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Learn \u05e8\u05d9\u05d8\u05d1&#8221;\u05d0 &#8220;\u05d5\u05de\u05d4\u05d3\u05e8\u05d9\u05e0\u05df&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>See \u05de\u05d4\u05e8\u05e9&#8221;\u05d0&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>How does the fact that \u05e9\u05dc\u05d5\u05d7\u05d9 \u05d1\u05d9\u05ea \u05d3\u05d9\u05df \u05de\u05d9\u05d9\u05ea\u05d9 \u05dc\u05d4 agents of the court bring the aravos avoid the concern of someone carrying an&nbsp;Aravah&nbsp;on Shabbos?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The&nbsp;Gemara&nbsp;ask &#8220;Why don&#8217;t we post Churban Beis Hamikdash take the&nbsp;Aravah&nbsp;on hoshana Rabbah when it coincides Shabbos&#8221;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>What is the logic to permit this as our practice is that everyone takes the&nbsp;Aravah&nbsp;not just \u05e9\u05dc\u05d5\u05d7\u05d9 \u05d1\u05d9\u05ea \u05d3\u05d9\u05df and therefore the \u05d2\u05d6\u05d9\u05e8\u05d4 \u05d3\u05e8\u05d1\u05d4 is applicable and we should be concerned someone might carry the&nbsp;Aravah?&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Learn \u05ea\u05d5\u05e1\u05e4\u05ea \u05de\u05d2: &#8220;\u05e9\u05dc\u05d5\u05d7\u05d9<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Learn \u05e8\u05d9\u05d8\u05d1&#8221;\u05d0 who gives a different explanation than Rashi and Tosfos<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Question on Rashi:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Rashi explains the opening question of the&nbsp;gemara&nbsp;is based on \u05d2\u05d6\u05d9\u05e8\u05d4 \u05d3\u05e8\u05d1\u05d4. How could the&nbsp;gemara&nbsp;than offer the explanation of \u05d2\u05d6\u05d9\u05e8\u05d4 \u05d3\u05e8\u05d1\u05d4 when explaining why&nbsp;Lulav&nbsp;is not taken on Shabbos as this is already known?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The&nbsp;Gemara&nbsp;says&nbsp;Aravah&nbsp;is taken only one specific day of Sukkos that coincides with Shabbos as if it would be taken any of the seven days of Sukkos that coincides with Shabbos &#8220;\u05d0\u05ea\u05d9 \u05dc\u05e4\u05e7\u05e4\u05d5\u05e7\u05d9 \u05d1\u05dc\u05d5\u05dc\u05d1&#8221;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>See Rashi for one explanation<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>See \u05e8\u05d9\u05d8\u05d1&#8221;\u05d0 &#8220;\u05d0\u05d9 \u05d4\u05db\u05d9 \u05db\u05dc who gives different explanation<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>According to the opinion that taking&nbsp;Aravah&nbsp;post churban is just a minhag and not even a mitzvah from the Rabanan why would we have permission to take them on Shabbos as the Aravos are muktzah?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>See \u05e8\u05d9\u05d8\u05d1&#8221;\u05d0 &#8220;\u05d5\u05e4\u05e8\u05db\u05d9\u05e0\u05df \u05d0\u05d9 \u05d4\u05db\u05d9 for an answer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The&nbsp;Gemara&nbsp;answers &#8220;Because we are not experts to calculate the precise day of Yom Tov that&#8217;s why we can&#8217;t take aravos on Hoshana Rabbah that coincides with Shabbos.&#8221;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>What&#8217;s the major concern even if hoshana Rabbah is really the sixth day of Sukkos there is no issue with taking the&nbsp;Aravah&nbsp;as the&nbsp;Gemara&nbsp;said in essence one should be permitted to take&nbsp;Aravah&nbsp;every day of Sukkos to publicize that it&#8217;s a mitzvah from the Torah just we don&#8217;t to prevent people from treating the mitzvah of&nbsp;Lulav&nbsp;lightly?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Link to \u05e8\u05d9\u05d8\u05d1&#8221;\u05d0 on the entire&nbsp;Gemara&nbsp;who addresses many of these questions<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.sefaria.org\/Ritva_on_Sukkah.43b.1?lang=bi\">https:\/\/www.sefaria.org\/Ritva_on_Sukkah.43b.1?lang=bi<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Continue learning the&nbsp;Gemara&nbsp;until \u05d0\u05d9\u05ea\u05d9\u05d1\u05d9\u05d4 \u05d0\u05d1\u05d9\u05d9 (middle of the Amud)&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Learn \u05d2\u05de\u05e8\u05d0 \u05d3\u05e3 \u05de\u05d2: &#8220;\u05e2\u05e8\u05d1\u05d4 \u05e9\u05d1\u05e2\u05d4 \u05db\u05d9\u05e6\u05d3 (two dots) until \u05d0\u05d9\u05ea\u05d9\u05d1\u05d9\u05d4 \u05d0\u05d1\u05d9\u05d9 (middle of the Amud)&nbsp; Questions: Why doesn&#8217;t the&nbsp;Gemara&nbsp;open with a similar question that it asked on&nbsp;Lulav&nbsp;on \u05d3\u05e3 \u05de\u05d1 asking why&nbsp;Aravah&nbsp;is not taken&#46;&#46;&#46;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[6,2,5,3],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-29791","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-evening-chabura","category-gemara","category-rabbi-baruch-bodenheims-shiurim","category-sukkah"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/29791","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=29791"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/29791\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":29792,"href":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/29791\/revisions\/29792"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=29791"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=29791"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=29791"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}