{"id":28803,"date":"2022-11-21T22:16:00","date_gmt":"2022-11-21T22:16:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/?p=28803"},"modified":"2022-11-23T00:28:18","modified_gmt":"2022-11-23T00:28:18","slug":"rabbi-baruch-bodenheim-gemara-sukkah-lulav-hagazul-evening-chabura-gemara-sukkah-monday-night-shiur-cheshvan-28-daf-37b-38a-11-21-22","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/rabbi-baruch-bodenheim-gemara-sukkah-lulav-hagazul-evening-chabura-gemara-sukkah-monday-night-shiur-cheshvan-28-daf-37b-38a-11-21-22\/","title":{"rendered":"Rabbi Baruch Bodenheim: Gemara Sukkah &#8211; Lulav Hagazul (Evening Chabura): Gemara Sukkah: Monday night shiur, Cheshvan 28, Daf 37b-38a (11\/21\/22)"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<figure class=\"wp-block-audio\"><audio controls src=\"https:\/\/images.shulcloud.com\/13521\/uploads\/YNB-PTI\/shiurim\/rabbibodenheim\/rabbibodenheimeveningchaburagemarasukkahthirdperek11212022.MP3\"><\/audio><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\"><strong>Click on Right Side of Player to&nbsp;Download&nbsp;the Shiur<\/strong><br><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>Quickly review \u05d2\u05de\u05e8\u05d0 \u05d3\u05e3 \u05dc\u05d6 \u05e2\u05de\u05d5\u05d3 \u05d1 from after the Mishna until the Mishna \u05d3\u05e3 \u05dc\u05d7<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>We discussed last week whether one is required to shake the Lulav when he first recites the bracha on the lulav before Hallel?<br>The (\u05ea\u05d5\u05e1\u05e4\u05ea (\u05d1\u05d4\u05d5\u05d3\u05d5 and (&#8216;\u05e8&#8221;\u05df (\u05d3\u05e3 \u05d9\u05d7: \u05d3\u05e4\u05d9 \u05d4\u05e8\u05d9\u05e3 and (\u05e8\u05d0&#8221;\u05e9 (\u05e4\u05e8\u05e7 \u05e9\u05dc\u05d9\u05e9\u05d9 \u05e1&#8217; \u05db\u05d5 all said one must shake the Lulav when initially taking it and reciting the bracha.<br>The Meiri said it&#8217;s a kal vchomer that one must shake during the initial taking.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Learn \u05e8\u05de\u05d1\u05f4\u05dd \u05d4\u05dc\u05db\u05d5\u05ea \u05dc\u05d5\u05dc\u05d1 \u05e4\u05e8\u05e7 \u05d6 \u05d4\u05dc\u05db\u05d4 \u05d8-\u05d9<br><strong>Note:<\/strong> the Rambam does not mention shaking the Lulav at the time of reciting the bracha.<br>See the \u05d4\u05d2\u05d4\u05d5\u05ea \u05de\u05d9\u05d9\u05de\u05d5\u05e0\u05d9\u05ea \u05d0\u05d5\u05ea \u05e1 who quotes \u05e8\u05d1\u05d9\u05e0\u05d5 \u05e9\u05de\u05d7\u05d4<br><a href=\"https:\/\/hebrewbooks.org\/pdfpager.aspx?req=58958&amp;st=&amp;pgnum=286&amp;hilite=\">https:\/\/hebrewbooks.org\/pdfpager.aspx?req=58958&amp;st=&amp;pgnum=286&amp;hilite=<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Questions:<br><\/strong>How does the Rambam and \u05e8\u05d1\u05d9\u05e0\u05d5 \u05e9\u05de\u05d7\u05d4 explain the three gemara&#8217;s that Tosfos and the Ran brought as a proof that the Lulav is shaken during the initial taking?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>What is the point of disagreement between the Rambam and Tosfos\/ Ran\/ Rosh\/ Meiri ?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>What is a practical difference?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Is the extra tefach of the required height of the Lulav in addition to the first 3 tefachim part of the required height from the Torah or is it Rabbinic?<br>See last line \u05de\u05e9\u05e0\u05d4 \u05db\u05d8 \u05e2\u05de\u05d5\u05d3 \u05d1 and \u05e8\u05e9&#8221;\u05d9 \u05d3\u05e3 \u05db\u05d8: &#8220;\u05d5\u05e9\u05dc \u05e2\u05d9\u05e8 \u05d4\u05e0\u05d3\u05d7\u05ea<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The Mishna is clear that one must shake the Lulav. What is the source of the Mishna for this obligation?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>How many times must one shake the Lulav?<br>What is considered \u05e0\u05e2\u05e0\u05d5\u05e2\u05d9\u05dd &#8211; Moving the Lulav in various directions or actually shaking (rattling) the Lulav<br>Learn &#8220;\u05ea\u05d5\u05e1\u05e4\u05ea &#8220;\u05db\u05d3\u05d9<br>Learn &#8216;\u05e8&#8221;\u05df \u05d3\u05e3 \u05d9\u05d7: \u05d3\u05e4\u05d9 \u05d4\u05e8\u05d9\u05e3 &#8220;\u05d2\u05de\u05e8\u05d0<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>How do we conclude lhalacha?<br>Learn \u05e9\u05d5\u05dc\u05d7\u05df \u05e2\u05e8\u05d5\u05da \u05e1&#8217; \u05ea\u05e8\u05e0&#8221;\u05d0 \u05e1\u05e2\u05d9\u05e3 \u05d8 and the \u05de\u05e9\u05e0\u05d4 \u05d1\u05e8\u05d5\u05e8\u05d4<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Quickly review \u05d2\u05de\u05e8\u05d0 \u05d3\u05e3 \u05dc\u05d6 \u05e2\u05de\u05d5\u05d3 \u05d1 from after the Mishna until the Mishna \u05d3\u05e3 \u05dc\u05d7 We discussed last week whether one is required to shake the Lulav when he first recites the bracha&#46;&#46;&#46;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[6,2,5,3],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-28803","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-evening-chabura","category-gemara","category-rabbi-baruch-bodenheims-shiurim","category-sukkah"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/28803","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=28803"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/28803\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":28804,"href":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/28803\/revisions\/28804"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=28803"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=28803"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/ptiweb.org\/onshynbpti\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=28803"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}